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	<title>Comments on: Orchestrated Hooliganism At Town Hall Meetings on Health Care Reform</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/</link>
	<description>The personal blog of Phillip Dampier - Rochester, NY</description>
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		<title>By: Joan Chappelle</title>
		<link>http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-302</link>
		<dc:creator>Joan Chappelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:30:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/?p=2087#comment-302</guid>
		<description>I work and my husband is retired.  We are now paying $11,000 a year for health care.  We can&#039;t even afford the better insurance plans.  Some people are just looking at themselves--the hell with anyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work and my husband is retired.  We are now paying $11,000 a year for health care.  We can&#8217;t even afford the better insurance plans.  Some people are just looking at themselves&#8211;the hell with anyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah Palin News And Gossip &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Can You Hear Them Now?</title>
		<link>http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah Palin News And Gossip &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Can You Hear Them Now?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/?p=2087#comment-295</guid>
		<description>[...] other broadband carriers’ efforts to find new ways to gouge consumers, have seen FreedomWorks in action before: The group behind all of this, Freedom Works, is an astroturfing group I’ve dealt with before on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other broadband carriers’ efforts to find new ways to gouge consumers, have seen FreedomWorks in action before: The group behind all of this, Freedom Works, is an astroturfing group I’ve dealt with before on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/?p=2087#comment-293</guid>
		<description>Marvin:

I have had many of the same concerns you&#039;ve had about government intrusion into our lives during the eight years of the Bush Administration, when privacy rights were curtailed, wiretapping without warrants began, and unaccountability and secrecy seemed to be the order of the day.

It&#039;s funny I heard very little from conservatives concerned about personal liberty, freedom and protection from government intrusion then.  In fact, what I usually heard was that disagreement with Administration policies = treason.  I got whiplash watching the whole &quot;militia&quot; movement and sustained attacks on the Clinton Administration completely evaporate in 2001 the moment George W. Bush took office.  The moment Obama entered office, we were back to the same crazy rhetoric from 1992-2000.

When President Bush came to Rochester and visited a school in Greece for one of his &quot;town hall&quot; meetings on reforming Social Security, tickets for that event were available ONLY to registered Republican party members (voter rolls were checked by the local GOP office who was handing out tickets), questions asked were pre-screened on 3x5 index cards, and opposition was rarely, if ever, heard at these events.  In fact, protesters had to gather off-site a mile away.  Under these policies, we wouldn&#039;t be talking about health care reform protests because they wouldn&#039;t be allowed.  During Bush, just having an anti-Bush bumper sticker on your car was sufficient to have you removed and/or detained.

Thankfully, we didn&#039;t have the &quot;loyalty oaths&quot; that some of these events featured in some of the southern states, where you literally had to pledge support for the administration before gaining admittance!

I think every view should be heard, including yours, mine, and the guy over there and the woman next door.  But the exchange of views should be respectful, with everyone given a chance to speak.  That certainly isn&#039;t happening at these town hall meetings where people are being shouted down and occasionally threatened.

There is not a single health care reform proposals on the table in Congress that &quot;takes over&quot; the health care system by the government.  The single-payer plan is dead.  There is a plan that offers a public option buy-in to what is essentially Medicare.  It means that before age 65, if you want Medicare-like coverage, you can pay for it at cost out of your own pocket.

It scares the hell out of private insurers because they don&#039;t want to have to compete with that.  They certainly can compete with it if they choose, but that means leaner profits for them.  This is all about money, not about freedom or Communism.

Communism and socialism are words thrown around a lot on Fox News and in right wing circles, but it&#039;s really empty rhetoric, and I&#039;d remind you a lot of elected officials using it are on government run health care plans themselves, and you don&#039;t see them hurrying to switch to a private provider either.

I am all with you on preserving personal liberty, freedom of speech, and telling people if they want benefits, they have to work for them (either through a job or assigning them some public works project so they accomplish something for the public good).

As far as intimidation and coercion, remember, this is the Democratic party.  With this party, it&#039;s always like herding cats.  You can&#039;t get them to vote in unison on much of anything.

Health care reform impacts none of these things, however.  It&#039;s ultimately a battle between a privately run monopoly/duopoly in most markets that answers to Wall Street who expects to see a certain business model with anticipated returns.  Private sector competition alone will bring you multiple providers all charging nearly equivalent pricing.  That&#039;s because Wall Street will bitch and moan about price wars.  Executives listen to Wall Street before they listen to customers.  The public option shakes up the whole system, and forces new pricing models, expected returns, and forces efficiencies from all sectors to deliver the best possible care with the least overhead.

And finally, for the record, while some of these people attending these events are paid to protest, or bused in from other places, there are many who have been suckered into the anti-reform rhetoric promulgated by astroturfing groups that pretend to represent ordinary Americans but actually sustain themselves on money paid by health care lobbies to run these pushback efforts.

On an issue like this, which is really all about the money, following that money is far more illuminating than the propaganda campaign I&#039;ve watched from health care interests trying to scare people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marvin:</p>
<p>I have had many of the same concerns you&#8217;ve had about government intrusion into our lives during the eight years of the Bush Administration, when privacy rights were curtailed, wiretapping without warrants began, and unaccountability and secrecy seemed to be the order of the day.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s funny I heard very little from conservatives concerned about personal liberty, freedom and protection from government intrusion then.  In fact, what I usually heard was that disagreement with Administration policies = treason.  I got whiplash watching the whole &#8220;militia&#8221; movement and sustained attacks on the Clinton Administration completely evaporate in 2001 the moment George W. Bush took office.  The moment Obama entered office, we were back to the same crazy rhetoric from 1992-2000.</p>
<p>When President Bush came to Rochester and visited a school in Greece for one of his &#8220;town hall&#8221; meetings on reforming Social Security, tickets for that event were available ONLY to registered Republican party members (voter rolls were checked by the local GOP office who was handing out tickets), questions asked were pre-screened on 3&#215;5 index cards, and opposition was rarely, if ever, heard at these events.  In fact, protesters had to gather off-site a mile away.  Under these policies, we wouldn&#8217;t be talking about health care reform protests because they wouldn&#8217;t be allowed.  During Bush, just having an anti-Bush bumper sticker on your car was sufficient to have you removed and/or detained.</p>
<p>Thankfully, we didn&#8217;t have the &#8220;loyalty oaths&#8221; that some of these events featured in some of the southern states, where you literally had to pledge support for the administration before gaining admittance!</p>
<p>I think every view should be heard, including yours, mine, and the guy over there and the woman next door.  But the exchange of views should be respectful, with everyone given a chance to speak.  That certainly isn&#8217;t happening at these town hall meetings where people are being shouted down and occasionally threatened.</p>
<p>There is not a single health care reform proposals on the table in Congress that &#8220;takes over&#8221; the health care system by the government.  The single-payer plan is dead.  There is a plan that offers a public option buy-in to what is essentially Medicare.  It means that before age 65, if you want Medicare-like coverage, you can pay for it at cost out of your own pocket.</p>
<p>It scares the hell out of private insurers because they don&#8217;t want to have to compete with that.  They certainly can compete with it if they choose, but that means leaner profits for them.  This is all about money, not about freedom or Communism.</p>
<p>Communism and socialism are words thrown around a lot on Fox News and in right wing circles, but it&#8217;s really empty rhetoric, and I&#8217;d remind you a lot of elected officials using it are on government run health care plans themselves, and you don&#8217;t see them hurrying to switch to a private provider either.</p>
<p>I am all with you on preserving personal liberty, freedom of speech, and telling people if they want benefits, they have to work for them (either through a job or assigning them some public works project so they accomplish something for the public good).</p>
<p>As far as intimidation and coercion, remember, this is the Democratic party.  With this party, it&#8217;s always like herding cats.  You can&#8217;t get them to vote in unison on much of anything.</p>
<p>Health care reform impacts none of these things, however.  It&#8217;s ultimately a battle between a privately run monopoly/duopoly in most markets that answers to Wall Street who expects to see a certain business model with anticipated returns.  Private sector competition alone will bring you multiple providers all charging nearly equivalent pricing.  That&#8217;s because Wall Street will bitch and moan about price wars.  Executives listen to Wall Street before they listen to customers.  The public option shakes up the whole system, and forces new pricing models, expected returns, and forces efficiencies from all sectors to deliver the best possible care with the least overhead.</p>
<p>And finally, for the record, while some of these people attending these events are paid to protest, or bused in from other places, there are many who have been suckered into the anti-reform rhetoric promulgated by astroturfing groups that pretend to represent ordinary Americans but actually sustain themselves on money paid by health care lobbies to run these pushback efforts.</p>
<p>On an issue like this, which is really all about the money, following that money is far more illuminating than the propaganda campaign I&#8217;ve watched from health care interests trying to scare people.</p>
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		<title>By: Marvin Moskovitz</title>
		<link>http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>Marvin Moskovitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 14:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/?p=2087#comment-292</guid>
		<description>If people at these Townhall meetings on Healthcare reform seem to be &quot;plants&quot;, I don&#039;t believe so, but I really don&#039;t care because they are expressing the views of many of us (the silent majority, unlike what the AARP represents).  I&#039;m retired and only have a net retirement income of ~$2000/month, but I&#039;d gladly give up half of it to keep the Government from taking over any more of our lives.  
We as citizens of the United States of America need to decide right now, before it&#039;s too late, whether we want to be free to live our lives as the Constitution guarantees or whether we want the Government to rule our lives.  As for me and many of my friends, freedom is the choice.  The Constitution doesn&#039;t guarantee that everyone will be equal, nor should it.  It, however, guarantees that we will have equal opportunity which, for the most part, we have (some of us have to work for it, some others { those that don&#039;t want to work and those that are here illegally get things paid for by the people who choose to work for what they get}.
Do we need healthcare reform?  Yes, but not a Government takeover.  We need to put common sense into any decisions made by our Government officials.  Right now, we have higher ups in Government lying to us and to each other, breaking the very laws that they enacted, and using intimidation and coercion to have their peers vote against their will.  Sounds like Communism in action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If people at these Townhall meetings on Healthcare reform seem to be &#8220;plants&#8221;, I don&#8217;t believe so, but I really don&#8217;t care because they are expressing the views of many of us (the silent majority, unlike what the AARP represents).  I&#8217;m retired and only have a net retirement income of ~$2000/month, but I&#8217;d gladly give up half of it to keep the Government from taking over any more of our lives.<br />
We as citizens of the United States of America need to decide right now, before it&#8217;s too late, whether we want to be free to live our lives as the Constitution guarantees or whether we want the Government to rule our lives.  As for me and many of my friends, freedom is the choice.  The Constitution doesn&#8217;t guarantee that everyone will be equal, nor should it.  It, however, guarantees that we will have equal opportunity which, for the most part, we have (some of us have to work for it, some others { those that don&#8217;t want to work and those that are here illegally get things paid for by the people who choose to work for what they get}.<br />
Do we need healthcare reform?  Yes, but not a Government takeover.  We need to put common sense into any decisions made by our Government officials.  Right now, we have higher ups in Government lying to us and to each other, breaking the very laws that they enacted, and using intimidation and coercion to have their peers vote against their will.  Sounds like Communism in action.</p>
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		<title>By: hamletta</title>
		<link>http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>hamletta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 05:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/?p=2087#comment-289</guid>
		<description>God bless you, sir</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God bless you, sir</p>
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		<title>By: Balloon Juice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teabagging broadband</title>
		<link>http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/2009/08/04/orchestrated-hooliganism-thuggery-at-town-hall-meetings-on-health-care-reform/comment-page-1/#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator>Balloon Juice &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Teabagging broadband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.phillipdampier.com/blog/?p=2087#comment-288</guid>
		<description>[...] This is pretty interesting. The good people at StopTheCap, who have done a great job fighting Time-Warner&#8217;s and other broadband carriers&#8217; efforts to find new ways to gouge consumers, have seen FreedomWorks in action before: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is pretty interesting. The good people at StopTheCap, who have done a great job fighting Time-Warner&#8217;s and other broadband carriers&#8217; efforts to find new ways to gouge consumers, have seen FreedomWorks in action before: [...]</p>
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